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	<title>Comments on: Baptists and the Nicene Creed</title>
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		<title>By: Byron Arnold</title>
		<link>http://www.fbcgh.net/archives/16#comment-964</link>
		<dc:creator>Byron Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The phrase &quot;for the forgiveness of sins&quot; does not necessarily mean &quot;in order for your sins to be forgiven&quot;. Another sense of the phrase is &quot;because of the forgiveness of sins&quot;. You might find this article enlightening... :)
http://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-Acts-2-38.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The phrase &#8220;for the forgiveness of sins&#8221; does not necessarily mean &#8220;in order for your sins to be forgiven&#8221;. Another sense of the phrase is &#8220;because of the forgiveness of sins&#8221;. You might find this article enlightening&#8230; <img src='http://www.fbcgh.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
<a href="http://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-Acts-2-38.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-Acts-2-38.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Eugene Curry</title>
		<link>http://www.fbcgh.net/archives/16#comment-963</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Eugene Curry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi Ken,

I’m so glad that you decided to comment on the post. Much of what you say is correct. The Nicene Creed was indeed written by and for the Church catholic, and it was based on Scripture. Further, as you point out, if one recites the Creed then he declares that he is a part of the “universal Church” (or “catholic Church” depending on the translation—the words mean the same thing). Again, yes, you are correct that the “Trail of Blood” mythology that enjoyed wide currency among some Baptists in some eras is mostly historically unsupportable fiction. And, finally, it’s certainly true that Baptists disagree with one another on a variety of theological topics. 

We could, I suppose, end the conversation there with a crescendo of agreement. But given the tone of your comment I tend to suspect that you meant to imply more than what I’ve agreed with. While the lack of capitalization in your comment precludes certainty, I get the feeling that you’re insinuating that the Creed wasn’t just authored by the catholic Church generally, but by the Roman Catholic Church™ specifically… and that, further, the Baptists are at some sort of disadvantage to Roman Catholics because Baptists disagree with each other on some points while… presumably Roman Catholics don’t?

If this is the intention of your comment then allow me to disabuse you of your errors. 

First, while the Nicene Creed was written in AD 325 and then expanded in 381 by members of the generally undifferentiated “catholic Church”—some of whom came from areas of the Church that would ultimately evolve into what we now call the Roman Catholic Church—others hailed from sectors of the Church that evolved into the Eastern Orthodox communion and the Oriental Orthodox communion. In other words, the Creed was not a wholly owned creation of the primitive RCC but of a wider, less sectarian conglomeration of Christians. As such, it seems entirely reasonable for Baptists (and all other Christians too, really) to embrace the Creed as a part of our ancient and undivided patrimony.

Second, while Baptists do often disagree with each other on a number of theological points, Roman Catholics likewise disagree with each other on other theological points. To take just one example out of thousands, the Catholic theologian Hans Küng remains a priest in good standing within the Roman Catholic Church (he even lunched with the pope recently) and yet he vigorously denies the doctrine of Papal Infalibility—a doctrine upheld with the greatest sincerity by other Roman Catholic priests. Similar divides can be found within Roman Catholic theological opinion regarding the appropriateness of mandatory clerical celibacy and the ban on remarriages after divorce (see, for example, the document &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_2011&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Church 2011&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;). So, yes, Baptists are not entirely of one mind on some issues, but the same can be said of Roman Catholics. It’s comforting then to know that God’s grace is sufficient for us befuddled creatures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ken,</p>
<p>I’m so glad that you decided to comment on the post. Much of what you say is correct. The Nicene Creed was indeed written by and for the Church catholic, and it was based on Scripture. Further, as you point out, if one recites the Creed then he declares that he is a part of the “universal Church” (or “catholic Church” depending on the translation—the words mean the same thing). Again, yes, you are correct that the “Trail of Blood” mythology that enjoyed wide currency among some Baptists in some eras is mostly historically unsupportable fiction. And, finally, it’s certainly true that Baptists disagree with one another on a variety of theological topics. </p>
<p>We could, I suppose, end the conversation there with a crescendo of agreement. But given the tone of your comment I tend to suspect that you meant to imply more than what I’ve agreed with. While the lack of capitalization in your comment precludes certainty, I get the feeling that you’re insinuating that the Creed wasn’t just authored by the catholic Church generally, but by the Roman Catholic Church™ specifically… and that, further, the Baptists are at some sort of disadvantage to Roman Catholics because Baptists disagree with each other on some points while… presumably Roman Catholics don’t?</p>
<p>If this is the intention of your comment then allow me to disabuse you of your errors. </p>
<p>First, while the Nicene Creed was written in AD 325 and then expanded in 381 by members of the generally undifferentiated “catholic Church”—some of whom came from areas of the Church that would ultimately evolve into what we now call the Roman Catholic Church—others hailed from sectors of the Church that evolved into the Eastern Orthodox communion and the Oriental Orthodox communion. In other words, the Creed was not a wholly owned creation of the primitive RCC but of a wider, less sectarian conglomeration of Christians. As such, it seems entirely reasonable for Baptists (and all other Christians too, really) to embrace the Creed as a part of our ancient and undivided patrimony.</p>
<p>Second, while Baptists do often disagree with each other on a number of theological points, Roman Catholics likewise disagree with each other on other theological points. To take just one example out of thousands, the Catholic theologian Hans Küng remains a priest in good standing within the Roman Catholic Church (he even lunched with the pope recently) and yet he vigorously denies the doctrine of Papal Infalibility—a doctrine upheld with the greatest sincerity by other Roman Catholic priests. Similar divides can be found within Roman Catholic theological opinion regarding the appropriateness of mandatory clerical celibacy and the ban on remarriages after divorce (see, for example, the document <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_2011" rel="nofollow"><em>Church 2011</em></a>). So, yes, Baptists are not entirely of one mind on some issues, but the same can be said of Roman Catholics. It’s comforting then to know that God’s grace is sufficient for us befuddled creatures.</p>
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		<title>By: ken</title>
		<link>http://www.fbcgh.net/archives/16#comment-962</link>
		<dc:creator>ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>nicene creed was written by and for the catholic church based on scripture. if you recite the creed you are saying you are part of the  universal church. there is no baptist
church. baptist churches are not agreed on basic tenets i.e.- original sin,once saved
always saved. the latest divide is on decisional regeneration -altar call one day out the door the next day. baptist have been described as a theology in search of structure.
there is a trail not of blood - but of confusion.      ken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nicene creed was written by and for the catholic church based on scripture. if you recite the creed you are saying you are part of the  universal church. there is no baptist<br />
church. baptist churches are not agreed on basic tenets i.e.- original sin,once saved<br />
always saved. the latest divide is on decisional regeneration -altar call one day out the door the next day. baptist have been described as a theology in search of structure.<br />
there is a trail not of blood &#8211; but of confusion.      ken</p>
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