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	<title>The First Baptist Church of Granada Hills &#187; Atheism</title>
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		<title>A Conversation About Design</title>
		<link>http://www.fbcgh.net/archives/72</link>
		<comments>http://www.fbcgh.net/archives/72#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Eugene Curry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evolution]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[multiverse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theism]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fbcgh.net/wordpress/?p=72</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[            Two men, Theist and Atheist, find themselves walking together along a woodland road.  As it’s a crisp and beautiful day and neither is in any rush the two begin a conversation.  Amid their talk of wives and children, occupations &#8230; <a href="http://www.fbcgh.net/archives/72">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"><img class="alignleft" style="margin: 5px; float: left;" src="http://www.fbcgh.net/wordpress/wp-content/pictures/sparrow.jpg" alt="" width="230" height="221" />            </span>Two men, Theist and Atheist, find themselves walking together along a woodland road.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>As it’s a crisp and beautiful day and neither is in any rush the two begin a conversation.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Amid their talk of wives and children, occupations and recreation they both come to notice the beauty and harmony of the world around them: a sparrow picks at seeds on the ground, a gentle wind blows through the tall grass along the way, and the sunlight filtering through the trees overhead casts a variegated amber and green glow over the scene.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>“What a wonderful world we live in,” says Theist.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>“Wonderful indeed,” replies Atheist. “The grandeur of nature never ceases to amaze me.”</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>“Quite right,” says Theist, “But we mustn’t forget to allow the grandeur of the world to turn our minds to the greatness of its Maker.”</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>“I don’t follow you there,” says Atheist.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>“To me the glory of the world is enough in itself; I see no reason to postulate a Maker—the world simply <em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">is</em>.”</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>Theist squints for a second and then responds, “How then do you explain all this: the beauty, the harmony, the integration, and how especially do you account for <em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">that</em>?”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>And with this Theist motioned to a one meter tall cube standing before them both in the middle of the road.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>The block seemed heavy and solid and upon it was engraved the following: “DESIGN”.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>“Ah, yes,” said Atheist, “That is striking.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>The complexity of the trees, the grass, even that little sparrow; I can clearly understand why these living things convey the impression of design.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>But we must remember that these things are merely the end product of a process of development: little random genetic changes being filtered through a screen of natural selection in which what works survives.”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>And with this Atheist put his shoulder to the block and began to push while Theist looked on.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Atheist’s heels dug into the ground and little beads of sweat emerged on his brow but after some effort he was able to push the block a good fifty feet away from where he and his companion had been chatting.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Once this labor was done he returned to Theist and smiled contentedly.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>“True enough,” said Theist, “But evolution can only take place because biochemistry is what it is.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Without the fundamental units of life being what they are with their ability to bond and divide as they do at the molecular level and so on we wouldn’t have evolved to enjoy the world around us.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Chemistry itself seems surprisingly specified; again, it seems designed.”</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>“Quite right,” admitted Atheist, “But even those chemical mechanisms which underlie life are themselves the result of a process of development.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>At the beginning of time it was all pretty much very simple and largely boring elements like hydrogen and helium and only through the slow march of time and the workings of gravity and so on did stars form which converted these basic elements into more interesting stuff like carbon.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>These stars sometimes exploded and then reformed into new stars with planets and these planets (seeded, as it were, with these heavier and more complicated molecules) ultimately produced the first forms of life which then went on to evolve.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>So, again, the design that <em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">seems</em> implicit in chemistry (which stands behind the design that <em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">seems</em> to underlie biology) is illusory—the end product of a natural process.”</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>Once more, after concluding his remarks, Atheist walked up to the block and began to push it further down the road.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Theist could hear Atheist grunting and once or twice he thought he heard Atheist cursing the block in frustration for its being as heavy as it was.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>This time when Atheist returned to Theist the block stood a hundred feet away and Atheist was panting slightly from his exertion.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>“What you say is all true,” said Theist. “But just as the development of biology is only possible because of the complex and very particular chemistry of our universe, so too the development of that chemistry is only possible because of the complex and very particular physics which order existence; just as biology is simply the flowering of idiosyncratic chemistry so chemistry is just the flowering of idiosyncratic physics.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Were the strengths of the fundamental forces or the sizes and masses of fundamental particles even very slight different than what they are complex chemistry wouldn’t exist and thus biology wouldn’t exist.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>The reality of design persists.”</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>At this Atheist became a bit irritated.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>“Fine, but have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, our universe isn’t the only one that there is?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Perhaps there are countless universes out there—somewhere beyond the threshold of our observation—all being brought into existence by spontaneous fluctuations in a quantum vacuum (or something).<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>The fundamental forces present in each of these universes might have different values and the same might be true for their fundamental particles as well!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>And given this diversity it’s only natural to imagine that at least some of the universes in this larger, potentially infinite collection would have physical laws such that complex chemistry would emerge at some point which would in turn give rise to biology and thus, in the course of time, to rational observers!”</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>Then, somewhat brusquely, Atheist marched off in the direction of the block.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Theist tried to call after him that such thinking was entirely speculative—metaphysical even—and lacked any observational confirmation but Atheist didn’t seem to hear him—he was muttering indignantly to himself pretty loudly as he walked away.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">   </span>Again Atheist began pushing the block and after quite a bit of huffing and puffing he came back to Theist, this time from a distance of one hundred and fifty feet.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>“There!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Done and done,” said Atheist to Theist, now pretty well exhausted and even a little grimy from all his effort.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>“Like I said, (deep breath)… the design (deep breath)… is merely (deep breath)… apparent; it’s not real.”</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>“But that simply doesn’t follow,” retorted Theist.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>“Even <em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">if</em> our universe is just one piece of a larger ‘multiverse’ that doesn’t really change anything.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Just as our universe operates according to certain regular laws it would seem that a quantum vacuum (or whatever) that makes large numbers of universes would operate according to certain regular laws too.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>And if such an entity does exist why then, of all the possible laws it could be operating with, does it seem to be operating with precisely those laws that lead to the eventual emergence of a universe with our physics, which inevitably produce complex chemistry, which inevitably ends up producing life, which inevitably ends up producing rational observers?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>It all hangs on a presumably very specific, finely tuned ‘law of laws’ which would allow for all the rest.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>I mean, look,” and with this Theist pointed down the road to where the block rested—now a rather small dot in their field of vision for all the distance, “It’s still there.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>You’ve only succeeded in distancing it from us.”</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>With a clear tone of exasperation and a roll of his eyes Atheist took another long breath and said, “Well, you have to at least admit that it’s a lot smaller now.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>When we first started talking the block was a meter cubed; now it’s so small I can blot it out with just my thumb.”</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">            </span>Theist looked at his companion rather quizzically, then he looked at the block, then back to Atheist again, “Umm… I don’t know… something about that statement doesn’t seem quite right.”</span></span></p>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>An Unusual Advent Meditation</title>
		<link>http://www.fbcgh.net/archives/46</link>
		<comments>http://www.fbcgh.net/archives/46#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Eugene Curry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Advent]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Apologetics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[naturalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Transcendental]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[     Historically the season of Advent has had a mournful touch to it. The idea is that Christians focus on some of the sadness and social ennui that existed within Judaism prior to the birth of Jesus&#8211; after all, the &#8230; <a href="http://www.fbcgh.net/archives/46">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>     Historically the season of Advent has had a mournful touch to it. The idea is that Christians focus on some of the sadness and social ennui that existed within Judaism prior to the birth of Jesus&#8211; after all, the very idea of a Savior presupposes that a person needs to be saved <em>from something</em>. To that end preachers often focus on those passages of the prophets&#8217; writings that both lamented the then-current situation and also looked forward to something better.<br />
     Of course, as Americans, we don&#8217;t have to worry much about cruel occupations and exile. But even so, many in our day struggle with a different sort of hopelessness, a general purposelessness and triviality born of the spiritual confusion of our time.   And just as Christ came to give hope to the downtrodden, so too does His coming offer hope to the philosophically and religiously befuddled.<br />
     The following links connect to one of the best presentations of the so-called &#8220;Transcendental Argument for God&#8221; that I&#8217;ve ever heard. It illustrates just the sort of thing that Christ has come to free us from. Enjoy.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvWuWwbvDo4">&#8220;Naturalism is Irrational&#8221; (Part 1 of 6)</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT8TRbjokiI">&#8220;Naturalism is Irrational&#8221; (Part 2 of 6)</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yoeo7TM_vI">&#8220;Naturalism is Irrational&#8221; (Part 3 of 6)</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8saHbHQTFA">&#8220;Naturalism is Irrational&#8221; (Part 4 of 6)</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuvgml2QXU0">&#8220;Naturalism is Irrational&#8221; (Part 5 of 6)</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpez0pHq_Iw">&#8220;Naturalism is Irrational&#8221; (Part 6 of 6)</a></p>
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