Comments on: A Baptist in a Clerical Collar http://www.fbcgh.net/wordpress/archives/8 Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:22:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Wyman Richardson http://www.fbcgh.net/wordpress/archives/8#comment-137 Wyman Richardson Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:15:45 +0000 http://www.fbcgh.net/wordpress/archives/8#comment-137 Speaking for myself, I cannot imagine a collar and a "Reverend" door plaque (Is this really a problem?!) keeping me away from a church, if, in fact, the humility of the pastor and, (dare say it?) of the laity is more important than these things...which, of course, it is. Eugene, it sounds to me like you have a well-thought-out reason for this, that you're in no way trying to deceive anybody, and that your heart is in the right place. I commend you and, did I not live on the other side of the country and were I not a pastor myself, I'd certainly come check you guys out, collar or not! :-) God-speed! Speaking for myself, I cannot imagine a collar and a “Reverend” door plaque (Is this really a problem?!) keeping me away from a church, if, in fact, the humility of the pastor and, (dare say it?) of the laity is more important than these things…which, of course, it is.

Eugene, it sounds to me like you have a well-thought-out reason for this, that you’re in no way trying to deceive anybody, and that your heart is in the right place. I commend you and, did I not live on the other side of the country and were I not a pastor myself, I’d certainly come check you guys out, collar or not! :-)

God-speed!

]]> By: Pastor Eugene Curry http://www.fbcgh.net/wordpress/archives/8#comment-114 Pastor Eugene Curry Mon, 31 Dec 2007 03:59:51 +0000 http://www.fbcgh.net/wordpress/archives/8#comment-114 I’m so glad that you visit the blog, SC. You are, of course, certainly correct that many people associate a clerical collar with a particular denomination. But I think that that association is a bit more fluid than you may realize. A person from largely Catholic southern California may very well associate the collar with Catholicism, but then again, a person from largely Lutheran Wisconsin is just as likely to associate it with Lutheranism and a person from certain parts of South Dakota is equally as likely to associate it with Episcopalianism, and so on. People simply tend to interpret their observations with reference to their past experience and thus, if a person has some experience with collar-wearing ministers, the sight of a minister wearing a collar is rather naturally linked to that reference point. With that said, your relative's concerns about a possible attempt to mislead others with a collar are well taken. Allow me to assure you that such is not my intention. It is precisely because of this possible misunderstanding that I have avoided wearing a specifically Roman collar and have further avoided the “black on black” look. When I lead the Good News Club at Tulsa Elementary I generally wear a blue, red, or grey short-sleeved shirt and, to make misidentification even more unlikely, my wife is present and I, of course, wear my wedding ring. Further, the name tag I wear at the school is labeled “Pastor Curry” and not “Father Curry” or even the more generic “Rev. Curry”. If lapsed or nominal Catholic families begin attending FBCGH as a side effect of the Good News Club I would be delighted, but I certainly don’t want to steal active members away from St. Euphrasia’s or St. John the Baptist de la Salle’s: I have no intention of trespassing on Fathers Wakefield and Milbauer’s “turf”. The reference to Ephesians 6:11-17 is also spot-on. This is precisely the kind of “clothing” the Pharisees lacked—a deficiency for which Jesus condemned them. All ministers (and all Christians for that matter) ought to model the virtues mentioned in Ephesians 6. My only contention is that ministers ought to model these virtues and, in specific situations, make their profession apparent through some symbol, something which, as I wrote, the ministers of God were called to do in the Old Testament. Of course, as members of the New Covenant, the specific strictures of the Old Testament law no longer apply to us, but the spirit of that law, its underlying values, ought to continue to guide us who live by faith. And it seems that an identifiable clergy is one of those values. I’m so glad that you visit the blog, SC. You are, of course, certainly correct that many people associate a clerical collar with a particular denomination. But I think that that association is a bit more fluid than you may realize. A person from largely Catholic southern California may very well associate the collar with Catholicism, but then again, a person from largely Lutheran Wisconsin is just as likely to associate it with Lutheranism and a person from certain parts of South Dakota is equally as likely to associate it with Episcopalianism, and so on. People simply tend to interpret their observations with reference to their past experience and thus, if a person has some experience with collar-wearing ministers, the sight of a minister wearing a collar is rather naturally linked to that reference point.

With that said, your relative’s concerns about a possible attempt to mislead others with a collar are well taken. Allow me to assure you that such is not my intention. It is precisely because of this possible misunderstanding that I have avoided wearing a specifically Roman collar and have further avoided the “black on black” look. When I lead the Good News Club at Tulsa Elementary I generally wear a blue, red, or grey short-sleeved shirt and, to make misidentification even more unlikely, my wife is present and I, of course, wear my wedding ring. Further, the name tag I wear at the school is labeled “Pastor Curry” and not “Father Curry” or even the more generic “Rev. Curry”. If lapsed or nominal Catholic families begin attending FBCGH as a side effect of the Good News Club I would be delighted, but I certainly don’t want to steal active members away from St. Euphrasia’s or St. John the Baptist de la Salle’s: I have no intention of trespassing on Fathers Wakefield and Milbauer’s “turf”.

The reference to Ephesians 6:11-17 is also spot-on. This is precisely the kind of “clothing” the Pharisees lacked—a deficiency for which Jesus condemned them. All ministers (and all Christians for that matter) ought to model the virtues mentioned in Ephesians 6. My only contention is that ministers ought to model these virtues and, in specific situations, make their profession apparent through some symbol, something which, as I wrote, the ministers of God were called to do in the Old Testament. Of course, as members of the New Covenant, the specific strictures of the Old Testament law no longer apply to us, but the spirit of that law, its underlying values, ought to continue to guide us who live by faith. And it seems that an identifiable clergy is one of those values.

]]> By: SC http://www.fbcgh.net/wordpress/archives/8#comment-109 SC Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:21:33 +0000 http://www.fbcgh.net/wordpress/archives/8#comment-109 There is a flipside to the coin which has not been mentioned. Many people with some type of church background also relate the collar to very specific denominational affiliations. When my sister-in-law commented on the fact that you were wearing a collar while doing the Good News ministry at the local ES, and I told her you were from First Baptist, she was shocked. She then questioned if the collar meant you were trying to pander to or even mislead the school's catholic population. As a former First Baptist member, I couldn't see myself returning to a church where the collar and the "Reverend" door plaque were such a visible presence -- and, yes, it does look prideful. The absence of these things and the humble way the two pastors overseeing the flock during our time there carried themselves was what drew my family and I in and why we stayed so long. The "clothing" a pastor needs to convince himself he is ready to be in the world and live the example as God commands is in Eph. 6, is it not? There is a flipside to the coin which has not been mentioned. Many people with some type of church background also relate the collar to very specific denominational affiliations. When my sister-in-law commented on the fact that you were wearing a collar while doing the Good News ministry at the local ES, and I told her you were from First Baptist, she was shocked. She then questioned if the collar meant you were trying to pander to or even mislead the school’s catholic population.

As a former First Baptist member, I couldn’t see myself returning to a church where the collar and the “Reverend” door plaque were such a visible presence — and, yes, it does look prideful. The absence of these things and the humble way the two pastors overseeing the flock during our time there carried themselves was what drew my family and I in and why we stayed so long.

The “clothing” a pastor needs to convince himself he is ready to be in the world and live the example as God commands is in Eph. 6, is it not?

]]> By: Gianne http://www.fbcgh.net/wordpress/archives/8#comment-99 Gianne Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:36:33 +0000 http://www.fbcgh.net/wordpress/archives/8#comment-99 Well argued. I would like more of an explanation for your comments on Matt. 23, but your scriptural references and personal experiences were quite thought-provoking--even persuasive. Well argued. I would like more of an explanation for your comments on Matt. 23, but your scriptural references and personal experiences were quite thought-provoking–even persuasive.

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